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Reduce walking motion and Tuning
  • Hi Guys, need some help in tuning. I am trying very hard to reduce the walking motion as much as possible by tuning the PID only. What more can I do to the PID instead of using physical means e.g. shuffling or using steadicam vest to improve?



    I am using a Canon 6D running all 3 axis with BGM5208-200
    Roll 20 0.01 30
    Pitch 15 0.01 32
    Yaw 25 0.01 35
    Power
    Roll 190
    Pitch 180
    Yaw 195
    Alexmos v2.4b7

    Thanks!
  • i have the same problem :(

  • it look normal.. if you want to remove that effect you need to add one more axis..(all gimbal up and down) (you can use stadycam arm)There is nothing to do with it.. gimbal moves up and down.. use stab. software it will be better.
  • are you sure???
  • There is only so much you can do by tuning. The gimbal eliminates only the angular movement, not up and down or sideways movement. Tuning affects, but you can not tune those lateral or up and down movements away.

    What you can do is to practise not to move up and down.
  • Thanks for all the replies. After 5 months I gathered that we really need a 4th axis. I am trying to make a mini 4th axis isometric arm just like the steadicam ones but smaller. Will update here once I prototype one.
  • it should be possible though. I mean, i see the ronin do it and that doesnt have 4th axis.
    there has to be something, no?
  • The moza is killing it too. very smooth forward motion. Pretty cool to see.
    also MrCheesycam did it, not sure which control board:


    i've been working 3 straight days (24hrs!) trying to fix this walking motion, but i get nowhere. Trying every PID setting, all the other options, going #yolo with settings i dont even know what they are. Yes, walking carefully helps, and gets you close to have a near smooth shot. Running however, is pretty much impossible. Here's a clip of me doing fist running, then easy walking.
    http://youtu.be/RujOJw9qxGQ

    Interestingly enough, if film sideways, it is ALOT better. Probably because the roll-axis can work its magic. Still though, why wouldnt my dys eagle with the 32b controller not do what the moza, ronin and movi are doing?

    if i cant get a truly smooth shot, then why use this gimbal? I'll just get back to the gym, start working out and get a ronin.

  • SAme problem. I can walk like a creeping cat. No chance... I can see every step!! That is sh.t!!
  • For me moving fast is quite ok , running between 0:10 - 0:20



    Moving slowly is very difficult and always up and down moving, but noticed last week that with light gimbal holding just with on hand it is quite good, though still clear up and down movement.



    More see here http://forum.basecamelectronics.com/index.php?p=/discussion/662/levitezer-gimbal-test-videos-#Item_42 at the bottom of the page.

    Over all stationary objects at close distance is the most difficult ones. Humans and animals move, and even if they do not move, at least my eye seems to be more forgiving.
  • with these ultra wide lenses you will see alot less shake either way. also, really impressed by the movements Garug is making with his gimbal, looks rocksteady and really light. (holding the gimbal with an outstretched arm for a longer period of time... that nice!)

    As for the steps, i've been browsing around, and more and more i'm convinced that the solution might be:
    - operating, like Garug said before. Just like steadicam operators, i guess we should learn to run smoothly. Google for squat jogs for a funny example :D

    - PID settings should help alleviate most of the steps (focus on the Pitch axis)

    - Then, i'd strongly advise to get an IS lens.
    I just got myself one yesterday and its a huge difference when it comes to what i'd call Detailed Steadiness. Will NOT necessarily help with the steps, but i think an overall smoother image will help fool the viewer. test i did:


    and here's me using my new 16-35mm f4 IS lens (at 16mm) and walking carefully
    http://youtu.be/B8p7ATS80D0
    and
    http://youtu.be/_VouDGFkgkw

  • Thanks for giving good solutions. I and garug have pointed out 1 year ago its the way we walked. the best solution is a 4th axis on a steadicam else most of the time walking motion is hard to counter unless you shuffle your walk.

    Thanks jeftavarwijk for the IS analysis. just changed my system to d750 with VR lens and it really worked very well coupled with shuffle walking.
  • @200sx what do you do about running? I mean, i could really flat-out sprint with a steadicam, but doing that with my gimbal has not been possible. Perhaps its just exactly the same problem and solution, but still wanted to run that by you. (pun intended)

  • @jeftavarwijk I am using RP2 from Flygimbal.com , I design the system with rigidity in mind hence after prototyping, we ended up with a system similar to dji ronin where the 3 axis uses sturdy aluminium arms rather then carbon fibre. Carbon fibre tend to resonant more when we run.

    In my website you can see the intro video where I ran with a kid with no problems with vibrations when I am running.
  • I have tried to use Final Cut Pro stabilisation with no good result, I think without it is better. On this video I tried slowing down to half and using optical flow setting, and the big propeller looks rally smooth at 2:20


    Tried then the same principle as follows: Speed reduced to half, optical flow applied, saved as master file and reopened, Speed doubled and optical flow applied. This I tried to the beautiful boats video posted above. Here is the result. Note also exposure and saturation adjusted, noise removed and blur mask added.



    What do you think, does it remove the waling motion? My goal was to reduce the forward and back motion. Up/doe and sideways this should not affect much.



  • @garug well, to be honest, i wouldn't be happy with the results, but we might have a different taste.

    i do see a lot of walking motion, but i dont think it takes away from the images because i dont sense you want to emulate a crazy flexible jib or dolly shot. So its fast and with rough operating (holding it in one hand, quick turns) and does that really well, but it comes with some motion.

    Also your lens is really wide, which again is a stylistic choice i wouldn't make but yours is so wide that you obviously like it, and use it well. A very wide lens can mask alot of rough handling, like its easier to film wide or you're holding the camera with your hand then it is to film lets say 85mm.

    i myself are quite happy with the 16mm IS option that i have, although i might prefer even wider. I have a 12mm tokina lens that i adore but no IS and my speedbooster is not talking aperture with that lens. But in the end the lens and gimbal should work on very wide as more of a closer lens.

    the best way to test your set-up (i think) is to use a close IS lens range (mine is 35mm max, still pretty close) and see how the images hold up. If it looks good then, then you know you have a winner. Imho.

    also, just wanted to say i see your name popping up everywhere and answering questions people have and that i think thats really cool, you helping out so many people. Thanks! A lot!

  • @200x i see what you mean. Interesting to hear about the stronger frame and les 'jitter' because of it., makes sense.

    how heavy is it though. And also, do you find that operating it with one hand helps with the steps?
  • @jeftavarwijk , yes I agree, the Fisheye is a bit too much on the above videos, but inside the boats really the only one I have vide enough, and I carried only one lens with me. I was testing different gimbals and controllers and focus on the testing being inside the boats, Then just made some videos of the material I shot, and when editing, I was hoping I had also longer lens with me..

    Here is also Inside the boats videos, they are on purpose minimally edited. I did not get as much usable material that I was hoping, only one of the 3 gimbals was really up of this task.

    https://vimeo.com/album/3249454

    The walking motion is much present on the videos especially because the subjects are very close and stationary (people would not show so much walking motion as they move anyway) On my experience wide lens (especially fisheye) does not really mask the motion, it is more exaggerating it when the object is really close.

    Here is couple of examples with long lens I think they show less up and down movement, when the subject is far.

    This was with 105 mm + SpeedBooster on 2.3 crop (GH4 4k) and cropped on editing, so maybe about 200 mm effectively.



    On next up-to 0:40 wide and then long. Wide shows a lot up and down, not on horizon, but on the ground, The long does not show that much up and down as there is no reference close the camera. Similar walking on both.


    What I just mean, standing 10 meters of everything and wide lens masks all movement, but being less than 1 metre from the subject, not so. Of course long lens would be even worse, but normally not usable in 1 m, unless macro, and for that I would not use gimbal.

    With wide lens the uneven speed is a problem (forward and back motion) For this type of motion I think SW stabilisation could be good, if I would find such SW that removes that kind of wobble .
  • @garug (sorry i was away for a bit)

    i really like the shot of the moose. That at that focal length is pretty insane. Not squeeky clean, but its a gimbal, not a heavy dolly. So good job on that one.

    The second video is also impressive, you live at a beautiful place from what i can gather. The shot of the harbour is really good. The very wide one is a bit 'walky' indeed, but i do think you should be able to smooth that out with some ninja walking.

    What i've also learned, that the move movement in front of the camera but also by the camera itself, really helps with the feel of smoothness. Not the dolly like shots that need to be constant, smooth and steady but more the sweeping moves, fast or slow, work really well with the gimbal, even if its not perfectly smooth. Thats what i like with your harbour shot, a smooth pan to the left really helps (and is beautiful)

    to illustrate the moves (and smooth walking tried on all shots)

  • Thanks jeftavarwijk . When I took the above video I did not have yet a control for the follow and joystick speed, now I have a separate button that can be used to select the speed from 5 levels and that helps a lot. On to Moose video the gimbal was set for the 8-15 mm so the follow speed was fast, not well suitable at all for the 24-105 mm that I changed when saw the moos, so the follow is a bit sudden for the long focal length.

    Your video looks really dream like, nice smooth movement and I much like the tree shot at the end looking up and rotating.
  • I just did 4 tests, based on the idea of the 4th axis, which at this point, are our wrists and elbows.

    Handgrips pointed straight up: bad
    Handgrips pointed straight down: bad
    Handgrips at an angle: bad

    But what was the best, and cut the walking motions the most, was handgrips straight towards the user. Interesting. For me, that maximized what my elbows & wrists contribute.